• Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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    6 months ago

    In the early days of Starship I was a little bit optimistic. The “move fast and break things” strategy had quickly succeeded when SpaceX was trying to land boosters, so I was hopeful that each exploding Starship was one step closer to a working spacecraft.

    But at this point it’s just sad. I don’t see anything resembling progress.

    I think the boosters were a “fake it till we make it” thing that luckily worked out. I don’t think Starship will ever make it into space.

    • Cocodapuf@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      That’s a bonkers take. It’s the largest and most powerful rocket in history and it’s already made orbit. The raptor engines are the first full flow staged combustion engines to ever be put into a production rocket (This is a holy grail of rocketry). All estimates suggest that it’s also probably much cheaper to build than any of the other heavy lift rockets. And that was accomplished while also building full reusability into the design…

      The work they’ve done is nothing short of astounding. Which makes your take come off as either insane, blind, or biased.

      • Zron@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        It has not made orbit.

        It has done a suborbital flight.

        The difference between getting to space and getting to orbit is well, an orbit.

        Starship did not achieve the speed needed to maintain an orbit around the earth, if it can do so has not been proven.

        Getting something that big off the ground is impressive, but we did it 50 years ago with slide rules and pencils. Getting something off the ground should not be a success for a company that already has an orbital rocket in frequent use. Having 3 vehicles fail to achieve orbit, fail to demonstrate critical features like fuel transfer and engine relight, and fail to re enter the atmosphere while under control, is not a success. I do not buy the SpaceX corporate spin that “everything after clearing the pad is icing on the cake” that’s not good enough for a critical piece of hardware that is supposed to take humans to the moon and land them there.

        If ULA can develop a rocket that completes its mission on the first launch, and NASA can do the same, because they take the time to check everything, then why are we giving SpaceX the pass to move fast and break things when it’s clearly not working. They do not have a heavy lift orbital rocket. They have a rocket that can, from all evidence, achieve a suborbital flight while completely empty.

        And remember, this is not private money they are burning every time one of these explodes or burns up in the atmosphere. They were given 3 billion American Tax dollars to develop this thing. And now the Government Accountability Office has not even been shown that the Raptor engine is even capable of achieving the mission goals for Artemis. And their test articles are behind schedule and routinely failing in catastrophic ways.

        I want to see humans back on the moon in my lifetime. I think we need to go and set up a colony so that we can explore our solar system better and develop technologies for sustaining humanity both off of earth and in the harsh conditions we will face as our climate changes. Anything that threatens the mission of establishing a human presence off of earth needs to be looked at closely and realistically.

        Back in the 60’s we knew that the only way to get humans to the moon was to keep the equipment reliable and redundant, anything else was asking for people to die. We seem to have lost that simple insight in recent years, and Starship is the epitome of that hubris. A ridiculously complicated vehicle with a complicated flight plan that has not been shown to work in any capacity. That needs to be pointed out and investigated if for no other reason then it is delaying a major mission.

        • Cocodapuf@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          You’ve written a whole lot for someone who doesn’t seem to know what they’re talking about.

          It has not made orbit.

          It has done a suborbital flight.

          The difference between getting to space and getting to orbit is well, an orbit.

          These statements are intentionally misleading. The starship was less than 100 dv short of orbit when they decided to cut the engines in order to test another flight regime. It takes at least 8500 dv to make orbit, which means they were already 98.8% of the way there and they still had plenty of propellent to spare. All systems were nominal, they could have continued, but they had already proved their capability to make orbit and were now aiming to accomplish more. The fact is, they did achieve the kind of speed you need to reach orbit, but rockets have been able to reach orbit for a long time, that’s not impressive, but rockets have only just begun to start returning to earth.

          And remember, this is not private money they are burning every time one of these explodes or burns up in the atmosphere. They were given 3 billion American Tax dollars to develop this thing.

          So far, the SLS has spent 23 billion tax payer dollars. They have built 1 rocket. But saying they “built” the rocket isn’t even fair, as they salvaged the engines from previous space shuttles, expending engines that had previously been reused. What will they do when they run out of pre-built engines? Prices will go up for sure…

          Again, the SLS is attempting to use antique engines and essentially develop nothing new, and it has cost the public $23B. The starship is attempting to develop many ground breaking technologies, is so far achieving more of their goals with every launch. And they’ve spent 3 billion doing all of that.

          At this point it may also be worth noting that the SLS has been in development for 14 years, the starship has been in real development for 5-7 years.

          I remain in the position I started, to deny that SpaceX is doing something truly astonishing is plain bonkers.

    • ashok36@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      If you don’t see progress, it’s because you’re not paying attention. Each test flight of starship has performed better than the last.

    • jo3jo3@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Seriously… Are you drunk? There’s been incredible progress. It’s super exciting.

    • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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      6 months ago

      Also this is just an engine test at McGregor. They used to blow them up much more often as they were finding the limits. Nowadays it’s much less common, hence why it’s news when they broke one.

      • Zron@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Making it to space and making it to orbit are 2 different things.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      “move fast and break things”

      Sounds like a slogan for one of Stalin’s “Five Year Plans.”

        • prole@sh.itjust.works
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          6 months ago

          Lol what kind of comeback is that? We know he said that, dumbass, that was the entire point of their reference. Do you like… Not know who Stalin is?

          • VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            6 months ago

            Will every reader know that? Will every reader also know the finer nuances of the 3 downward arrows, one of them referring to Stalin’s authoritarianism? I’m not here to score sick comebacks? 🤷‍♀️

            • prole@sh.itjust.works
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              6 months ago

              Huh that’s interesting…

              Maybe we can hear directly from them about their views on Stalin:

              The Three Arrows were adopted as an official social democrat symbol by the SPD leadership and the Iron Front by June 1932. Iron Front members would carry the symbol on their arm bands. The slogan “neither Stalin’s slaves nor Hitler’s henchmen” was also used by the SPD in connection with the symbol.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows#Weimar_Republic

              So lol at you falling for some kind of bullshit agitprop just so you can attempt a clever comeback on Lemmy.

              I’m using it as a general anti-fascist symbol, and I like the idea of vandalizing swastikas with it.

              • VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                6 months ago

                Im authentically perplexed as to where we disagree and why you’re in “sick dunk” mode. Do you think I’m simping for Stalin? The 3 arrows appeal to me for the same reasons they do you, seems.

                • prole@sh.itjust.works
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                  6 months ago

                  Will every reader also know the finer nuances of the 3 downward arrows, one of them referring to Stalin’s authoritarianism?

                  Yeah it seemed like you were implying (or actually just saying) that one of the arrows refers to Stalin’s authoritarianism. Which is a bad thing, right? Do we agree on that? And I have it as my profile pic… So I dunno how else I was supposed to take your comment?

                  And to be clear, again, it is not true that one of the arrows refers to Stalin in any way.

                  • VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    6 months ago

                    “Down with all forms of authoritarianism” is how i associate with the symbol. We do inded agree fash in any manifestation are a bad thing.

                    Meanwhile here in the Elon thread, I’d like for folks not to associate Communism with dead bigoted tyrants who usurped the unions-of-unions that were Soviets, while misattributing a quote from a capitalist whose competing to have as much blood on his hands as Stalin did.