He has made jokes about horse cocks before. He also accidentally opened a folder containing loli and horse cocks on stream once .
There’s also an old out of context clip of him floating around “justifying cp because we abuse kids in labor camps that we get our rare earth metals, t-shirts, shoes n stuff like that from”.
That is NOT what he meant to say. If u see it in full context, he was displaying the contradictions of neo liberalism, where working conditions even for children are absolutely shit. We hate child porn (as we should), but we don’t hate the horrendous working conditions that our corporations make kids from poor countries go through. We justify stuff like this by pointing at the low cost that results from this cheap labor. This is absolutely disgusting. He was trying to say this, but got clipped out of context.
Doesn’t help that tankies absolutely hate him too (he’s a libertarian socialist who is pro Ukraine and anti CCP). I’m not saying that the guy is clean. Maybe he is a pedo. Maybe he isn’t. However, an accusation like that requires some sort of evidence. Without it, it’s just ad hominem. The amount of hatred that starts flowing after u even mention the guy’s name is unjustified imo. I agree with him on some issues, n I disagree with him on others. Then, I move on. People unfortunately don’t do that.
It wasn’t containing loli, it had generic hentai and some horse stuff. I was there and saw it, about 1000 hate-watchers immediately screamed “LOLI” and it stuck.
I think to be fair the artist was a known artist who had done loli and there was a character who was underage in some show but didn’t look more or less underage than ALL hentai, but people don’t necessarily save porn based on what other works the artist has made or what the storylines say. It was a pretty desperate accusation, people REALLY need to hate people who have different opinions.
If you have those thoughts and act on it, it’s a crime and it’s awful. But if you don’t, why should we penalize you? Shouldn’t we encourage people with those thoughts not to act on it?
It’s a really dark topic, but I really wish we could properly discuss it. And if we consider how many people seem to have those thoughts, we should find a better way than to hunt them. Because to them it’s just a “damned if you do, danned if you don’t” and that’s probably gonna encourage more crimes.
Unfortunately considering how bipartisan all conversations are and how hard it is to discuss those topics, it’s gonna be awhile until we can really take a shot at improving our processes when it comes to that.
Legality aside, insofar as it is philosophically debatable, gross and pedophilic is still gross and pedophilic.
If you know someone is thinking about murdering people around them, but holds off, would that make you feel any safer? I think the focus should be helping people not want that rather than appeasement.
Yes it would. If I knew someone is thinking about murder and someone else is doing the murder, and I could choose, I would definitely take the one thinking about murder.
Now it would be great if no one was thinking about murder in the first place but the world is complex, and because we are able to choose to some degree, let’s do that instead of saying “IDC, both is bad, I’ll take any of them”.
History shows us pedophiles exist. Some have thoughts, some commit crimes.
If we imprison all of them, that just means people will never tell you about it and they resort more to repression and crimes. But if we only imprison the ones who act on it, we open the rest of them up to the possibility that everyone accepts they won’t “go away” and we could focus on making sure they don’t act on it.
And there’s potential: a combination of different therapies helping them learn to live with it in a safe way could go a long way.
If we help them, we help us.
But if we criminalize their thoughts, they will resort to crime, because that’s all they know.
I agree nobody should be imprisoned for having thoughts. I also don’t think accepting something like loli as an outlet is helpful. Emulation of problematic tendencies isn’t exactly therapeutic.
While I don’t think emulation is a bad way in every case, in most cases it’s a huge risk and probably only helpful to a very small degree. This stuff can get very complex and I’m neither a scientist studying psychology nor a therapist, and for that matter I think those are the people that should brain storm a proper way to treat those people.
And we can start by calling them what they are in the first place. Sick in the brain. Mentally ill. And then we can start treating them properly.
And if they still commit crimes, then we can all say we tried our best and we prioritize our short term safety again over long term reduction and they will go to prison for (at least) a while.
But yeah, finding a better systematic way to prevent sexual crimes should be our priority over the satisfaction of identifying and shaming people with bad thoughts.
We’re basically on the same page here. I’m no professional either, and if it were black and white, there’d be no nuances to discuss. Mental health support is key, and like you said it can be hard to even talk about. It’s unfortunately easier to hate than to help.
I remember stumbling on some videos of him as I was being radicalized, he was talking about trans issues and generally having interesting, or at least thought-provoking things to say. I’m sure I learned stuff (and he was a brief part of my radicalization whether I want it or not), but not too long after, I started getting some pretty odd vibes. Couldn’t quite place what bothered me then because I just wasn’t educated on a lot of the western leftism shortcomings and knew way too little of colonial and imperial history and such, but some interventions were still eyebrow raising.
When he started (in my exposure to his content, no clue about how his positions evolved) really drilling into his disdain for religion, defense of “anti-white racism”, and spending way too long hating on other leftists I fully dropped out. I honestly can’t remember a single content creator where my falling out was so brutal especially without being exposed to any outside critique.
I’m sure he’s still got some good points to make on some subjects, but there are voices that do it better and without all the weird reactionary takes.
I would generally recommend people to steer clear from those “debate bro” types. Most of us probably had a period of falling into the trap of viewing good rhetoric, aesthetic and entertainment value, as something more than it actually is, hell most of us still struggle with that today. There’s nothing wrong with entertainment in the sphere of “political” media, but you should stay critical of people that spend too long just beating on anyone to the left of them. Even the “tankies” I follow have very civilized and respectful conversations with anarchists, trostkyists or socdems because they realize that very few of them have nefarious intentions and it always makes for something way more interesting than namecalling and gotchas.
I don’t know about CP or horse cocks or whatever, honestly this seems like exactly the kind of braindead drama I try to steer away from, but personally that had nothing to do with what really rubbed me wrong about Vaush.
He doesn’t debate anymore. His position is that he’s right about everything and if you disagree with him you are wrong. He doesn’t want people to defend him and people should make their own opinions and not base it off of bread tube drama.
People have bad takes. Fighting with other leftists over details derails the entire movement.
Everything’s always “out of context” with him, isn’t it? Because that’s his whole deal. He does controversial stuff to make people mad while hiding behind plausible deniability.
Whether it’s saying the n word, or saying what he did about CP, or whatever other antics he’s gotten up to, it’s the same playbook of controversy-bait. Stir up shit, get people mad, get hate clicks, get clicks from people who hate the people who got mad, get clicks from people who don’t want to get left out of the loop about what’s going on, etc.
I only partially dislike him for the times he’s taken the controversy-bait too far and done something legitimately shitty. Mostly I dislike him because he’s controversy bait, and whether or not he plays the game well enough to make sure nothing sticks doesn’t really matter. It’s still just stirring the pot for attention.
The best thing to do with people like that is just to pay them no mind. It’s not like I’m missing some unique insight or valuable perspective. I wish I could to that with politicians like Trump who employ similar outrage bait tactics, but he is unfortunately relevant to world affairs.
Anyway, it is my longstanding policy to downvote any comment or post about Vaush, positive or negative, since I don’t think he’s worth paying attention to and doing so just drags down the level of discourse, so, true to my policy, I will now be downvoting my own comment since I talked about him.
I also downvoted you both as a show of support for the consistent application of your principals, and because I also think Vaush is an annoying fuck.
I didn’t even know about most of the rage-bait controversy shit from this thread. I just hated him because he’s the living embodiment of the Well Ackshually meme…
He has made jokes about horse cocks before. He also accidentally opened a folder containing loli and horse cocks on stream once .
There’s also an old out of context clip of him floating around “justifying cp because we abuse kids in labor camps that we get our rare earth metals, t-shirts, shoes n stuff like that from”.
That is NOT what he meant to say. If u see it in full context, he was displaying the contradictions of neo liberalism, where working conditions even for children are absolutely shit. We hate child porn (as we should), but we don’t hate the horrendous working conditions that our corporations make kids from poor countries go through. We justify stuff like this by pointing at the low cost that results from this cheap labor. This is absolutely disgusting. He was trying to say this, but got clipped out of context.
Doesn’t help that tankies absolutely hate him too (he’s a libertarian socialist who is pro Ukraine and anti CCP). I’m not saying that the guy is clean. Maybe he is a pedo. Maybe he isn’t. However, an accusation like that requires some sort of evidence. Without it, it’s just ad hominem. The amount of hatred that starts flowing after u even mention the guy’s name is unjustified imo. I agree with him on some issues, n I disagree with him on others. Then, I move on. People unfortunately don’t do that.
It wasn’t containing loli, it had generic hentai and some horse stuff. I was there and saw it, about 1000 hate-watchers immediately screamed “LOLI” and it stuck.
I think to be fair the artist was a known artist who had done loli and there was a character who was underage in some show but didn’t look more or less underage than ALL hentai, but people don’t necessarily save porn based on what other works the artist has made or what the storylines say. It was a pretty desperate accusation, people REALLY need to hate people who have different opinions.
This.
That content is not my cup of tea, but at least it’s not real kids. Even if the “characters” are 18 to 1000 years old…
I’m always torn about this.
If you have those thoughts and act on it, it’s a crime and it’s awful. But if you don’t, why should we penalize you? Shouldn’t we encourage people with those thoughts not to act on it?
It’s a really dark topic, but I really wish we could properly discuss it. And if we consider how many people seem to have those thoughts, we should find a better way than to hunt them. Because to them it’s just a “damned if you do, danned if you don’t” and that’s probably gonna encourage more crimes.
Unfortunately considering how bipartisan all conversations are and how hard it is to discuss those topics, it’s gonna be awhile until we can really take a shot at improving our processes when it comes to that.
Legality aside, insofar as it is philosophically debatable, gross and pedophilic is still gross and pedophilic.
If you know someone is thinking about murdering people around them, but holds off, would that make you feel any safer? I think the focus should be helping people not want that rather than appeasement.
Yes it would. If I knew someone is thinking about murder and someone else is doing the murder, and I could choose, I would definitely take the one thinking about murder.
Now it would be great if no one was thinking about murder in the first place but the world is complex, and because we are able to choose to some degree, let’s do that instead of saying “IDC, both is bad, I’ll take any of them”.
History shows us pedophiles exist. Some have thoughts, some commit crimes.
If we imprison all of them, that just means people will never tell you about it and they resort more to repression and crimes. But if we only imprison the ones who act on it, we open the rest of them up to the possibility that everyone accepts they won’t “go away” and we could focus on making sure they don’t act on it.
And there’s potential: a combination of different therapies helping them learn to live with it in a safe way could go a long way.
If we help them, we help us.
But if we criminalize their thoughts, they will resort to crime, because that’s all they know.
I agree nobody should be imprisoned for having thoughts. I also don’t think accepting something like loli as an outlet is helpful. Emulation of problematic tendencies isn’t exactly therapeutic.
While I don’t think emulation is a bad way in every case, in most cases it’s a huge risk and probably only helpful to a very small degree. This stuff can get very complex and I’m neither a scientist studying psychology nor a therapist, and for that matter I think those are the people that should brain storm a proper way to treat those people.
And we can start by calling them what they are in the first place. Sick in the brain. Mentally ill. And then we can start treating them properly.
And if they still commit crimes, then we can all say we tried our best and we prioritize our short term safety again over long term reduction and they will go to prison for (at least) a while.
But yeah, finding a better systematic way to prevent sexual crimes should be our priority over the satisfaction of identifying and shaming people with bad thoughts.
We’re basically on the same page here. I’m no professional either, and if it were black and white, there’d be no nuances to discuss. Mental health support is key, and like you said it can be hard to even talk about. It’s unfortunately easier to hate than to help.
Yeah I’m just trying to raise this take every once in a while in the hopes of making systematic progress on this issue at some point ^^
Anti abortion but pro school shootings. That’s another one of those hipocracy positions.
ITT we have VDS
It was like one picture of drawn porn with a character that is canonically underage but didn’t look underage in the picture.
Yeah, that’s his remaining audience in a nutshell. It’s legit creepy.
I remember stumbling on some videos of him as I was being radicalized, he was talking about trans issues and generally having interesting, or at least thought-provoking things to say. I’m sure I learned stuff (and he was a brief part of my radicalization whether I want it or not), but not too long after, I started getting some pretty odd vibes. Couldn’t quite place what bothered me then because I just wasn’t educated on a lot of the western leftism shortcomings and knew way too little of colonial and imperial history and such, but some interventions were still eyebrow raising.
When he started (in my exposure to his content, no clue about how his positions evolved) really drilling into his disdain for religion, defense of “anti-white racism”, and spending way too long hating on other leftists I fully dropped out. I honestly can’t remember a single content creator where my falling out was so brutal especially without being exposed to any outside critique. I’m sure he’s still got some good points to make on some subjects, but there are voices that do it better and without all the weird reactionary takes.
I would generally recommend people to steer clear from those “debate bro” types. Most of us probably had a period of falling into the trap of viewing good rhetoric, aesthetic and entertainment value, as something more than it actually is, hell most of us still struggle with that today. There’s nothing wrong with entertainment in the sphere of “political” media, but you should stay critical of people that spend too long just beating on anyone to the left of them. Even the “tankies” I follow have very civilized and respectful conversations with anarchists, trostkyists or socdems because they realize that very few of them have nefarious intentions and it always makes for something way more interesting than namecalling and gotchas.
I don’t know about CP or horse cocks or whatever, honestly this seems like exactly the kind of braindead drama I try to steer away from, but personally that had nothing to do with what really rubbed me wrong about Vaush.
He doesn’t debate anymore. His position is that he’s right about everything and if you disagree with him you are wrong. He doesn’t want people to defend him and people should make their own opinions and not base it off of bread tube drama.
People have bad takes. Fighting with other leftists over details derails the entire movement.
Everything’s always “out of context” with him, isn’t it? Because that’s his whole deal. He does controversial stuff to make people mad while hiding behind plausible deniability.
Whether it’s saying the n word, or saying what he did about CP, or whatever other antics he’s gotten up to, it’s the same playbook of controversy-bait. Stir up shit, get people mad, get hate clicks, get clicks from people who hate the people who got mad, get clicks from people who don’t want to get left out of the loop about what’s going on, etc.
I only partially dislike him for the times he’s taken the controversy-bait too far and done something legitimately shitty. Mostly I dislike him because he’s controversy bait, and whether or not he plays the game well enough to make sure nothing sticks doesn’t really matter. It’s still just stirring the pot for attention.
The best thing to do with people like that is just to pay them no mind. It’s not like I’m missing some unique insight or valuable perspective. I wish I could to that with politicians like Trump who employ similar outrage bait tactics, but he is unfortunately relevant to world affairs.
Anyway, it is my longstanding policy to downvote any comment or post about Vaush, positive or negative, since I don’t think he’s worth paying attention to and doing so just drags down the level of discourse, so, true to my policy, I will now be downvoting my own comment since I talked about him.
I also downvoted you both as a show of support for the consistent application of your principals, and because I also think Vaush is an annoying fuck.
I didn’t even know about most of the rage-bait controversy shit from this thread. I just hated him because he’s the living embodiment of the Well Ackshually meme…