The IDF and Shin Bet security agency on Saturday night named 19 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror operatives that it said it killed in an airstrike Saturday morning on a Hamas and Islamic Jihad command room at the Taba’een school in Gaza City.
raises hand
Question
Does that mean that if Likud has a headquarters near some civilian installation, that it’s okay to blow it up and the civilians along with it?
(Not that I necessarily believe that Hamas had a command center next to all of the children, but even if they did, I don’t think that automatically means that blowing up all the children in the school becomes okay)
If you want to apply the same ratios the IDF uses when it comes to civilian casualties, Hamas comes out way better on Oct 7. The majority of the hostages and victims were IDF personnel.
Where did you get that information?
Wikipedia: 1,180 killed[18][c][d] 797 civilians,[e] including 36 children[f] 379 security forces[19]
For sources cited (they are legit), see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
Basically, the unacceptable and disgusting Hamas terror attack had a 32% legitimate targets to total hits ratio
Edit:
Or you can say that for every 1 legitimate target they also killed 2 illegitimate ones.
That of course does not mean that killing of legitimate targets cannot be a war crime (eg when they surrender).
But for the IDF to not be comparable to an abominable terror group, the ratios should be much different. And if we are to accept the “most moral army” thing, the ratio should be radically different (angel vs devil comparison).
Is it?
That’s…Hamas doctrine. They use civilians as human shields to avoid western attacks. Israel is notably different in their approach where they have basically decided to ignore human shield attempts in order to more effectively counter Hamas. Arguably, if it never works and Hamas fighters get killed anyway, Hamas might stop doing it because being amongst civilians means there are a lot of people who can inform on where Hamas militants are and what they’re doing. I suspect most civilians there support Hamas though, so it probably won’t change Hamas doctrine.
In Afghanistan by contrast, the US worked with various tribal elders who didn’t support al-Qaeda. This information allowed US forces to counter human shield tactics in those areas and fighters increasingly moved out to the remote regions so civilians couldn’t inform the US where they were.
It’s israel who’s been using palestinian as humanshield with videos to prove it
Well, Hamas kidnapped several hundred civilians from a music festival to use as hostages before Israel militarily invaded Gaza. Or is that fake news?
The west bank is illegally occupied that mean every single west banker arrested by israel was kidnapped. We also know how palestinian prisoners are treated.
Two whole groups of people can be bad at the same time
Hamas is horrifying villains, and Israel’s government and military are horrifying villains. There is room for all
Like that didn’t have historical context. Genocide already occurring next to a damn music festival.
You can tell this guy would rape Palestinian prisoners if he could.
That not helpful to the narrative that Hamas who are made up of Palestinians and supported by Palestinian people are pure and innocent
The Israeli army has used Palestinian civilians as human shields, deliberately putting them in strategic places and in front of military targets, in an attempt to prevent attacks, fortify its forces in the Gaza Strip, facilitate its military operations and obstruct corresponding military operations. When conducting ground incursions and military attacks, the Israeli army purposefully used Palestinian civilians to guard its forces’ assembly points. It also made them step in front of military vehicles when it stormed homes and buildings it thought were booby-trapped.
Israel are a terrorist state.
The one time the UN looked in detail into this theory, it turned out it was crap. Hamas and civilians are sometimes next to each other just because they all live in Palestine, but the claimed thing where they would deliberately gather up some civilians and have them stand next to their installation, as if this would deter the Israelis or as if there was any shortage of non-artificial civilian casualties and so it was useful on any level to create some artificially, was it turned out a bunch of hooey.
The Likud isn’t a military organization, that’s the IDF job. So… No.
Neither were the churches. Or the hospitals. Or the UN facilities. Or the Schools. Or the desalination plant. Or the tents filled with refugees. Or the graves of Australian soldiers. Or Palestinian civilians. Or the greenhouses.
Do you understand?
One of the names Israel listed as a militant was an 8-year-old boy, Shaheen Mahmoud Ibrahim Abu Sharif, according to the hospital records. Two boys on the morgue’s list, age 10 and 14, had names that suggested they were sons of a man Israel identified as a slain militant, although he was not listed among the hospital’s dead.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-mideast-latest-06-07-2024-cbc1aa84bc30b5f27dc1823155448f86
The name thing is so stupid. You could easily have 5 different people with the same exact name especially when there limited number of families in small area.
Well that makes up for the other 81 dead.
Oh wait, no it doesn’t at all.
Whether there were any legitimate targets is entirely inconsequential. They’re after a body count. Nothing more. They just wanna stack corpses.
I think their AI targeting machine was programmed to accept a 1 to 100 ratio of Hamas vs civilians. I guess stuff like that makes them the most moral army in the world.
Which is expected from the only democracy in this barbaric part of the world amirite
They are still a democracy until the fascists in power take over the judicial (bibi was trying) and cancel elections altogether. The left and the army want bibi to go. However, the government can’t fall, because bibi doesn’t want to go to jail and the ultraorthodox far-right will collapse government if there is a cease-fire…meanwhile Israel can’t be pressured from the outside because the US has bipartisan unconditional support and the EU is MIA…threats by Iran only embolden bibi to start a fight so they can destroy Iran’s nuclear tech…
Either the army rebels and demands new elections🙄…or someone amnisties bibi on condition of him calling new elections and going into exile😑 …I’m making shit up at this point…
Oh mate - that just would make them authoritarians. They’re already fascist.
As of now the Palestinian health authorities haven’t released the names of those 81 that are allegedly dead. Usually they don’t take long at all. In the meantime the IDF has released the 19 terrorists that totally weren’t hiding inside a school and are now dead. I assume most of those 81 don’t exist.
Why do you need to see a list of dead people’s names as if people aren’t dying when there’s a war going on?
Hamas is known to inflate the number of dead and injured, cry wolf over and over and, in general, lie in order to make Israel and The IDF look bad. All while painting themselves as poor, innocent sheep.
The first thing they did was to accuse The IDF of killing over 100 children by dropping a 2 ton bomb in the middle of a school.
As we can see, neither the number of dead, the munitions used or the demography that was targeted (Hamas militants vs children) are factually correct.
We are, in fact, at war with a terrorist organization. Targeting them while trying to minimize civilian casualties is acceptable and is what’s actually happening.
Are you okay?
Sure, you?
How many HQs does hamas have?
If it’s got walls and a roof it’s a Hamas HQ.
How many schools, hospitals, and refugee camps are there in Gaza?
One less
Like Israel already bombed almost all schools and universities in Gaza.
You can more easily rule over the uneducated, and I guess that’s the entire point.
The point is for Hamas terrorists to stop hiding amongst civilians. And hopefully to cease to exist altogether.
You are gross for justifying killing children with bombs instead of being a man and go there on ground to rescue your hostages.
Does someone have to spell out to you what an insurgency is? Or what asymmetric fighting is?
Is the IOF really so incompetent it has no access to the last 40 years of American imperialist strategy? Or can we drop the facade of logic and say this is about causing as much collateral damage/trauma as possible soas to cleanse Palestine of Palestinians.
The world knows a frontier war when we see one.
Everything can be Hamas if you just manifest it hard enough!
Remember the Al Shifa hospital Hamas bunker HQ? It’s been almost a year since Israel took control of it and we still haven’t seen one shred of evidence. That’s how much credibility they have.
